ALEXANDRINA COUNCIL ORAL HISTORY ARCHIVE

 

Interview with RICHARD SPENCER on Tuesday 16th November 1999 at Richard Spencer's home in Goolwa at 20 Richards Street.  The interviewer is Rose Geisler.  Richard's family were early settlers in Goolwa.

With emendations by Richard.                    Transcription by ?

Booklet Design & Production by G.W. (Frodo) Krochmal

TAPE 1  -  SIDE A

RICHARD, HOW DID YOUR FAMILY COME TO BE LIVING ON THE SOUTH COAST?

RS:  My Grandfather, John James Spencer was born in the County of Surrey in l845 and went to sea as a lad of thirteen sailing to India at the time of the Indian Mutiny.  He sailed to England in an eventful voyage three years later and suffered shipwreck in the English Channel.  Soon after this he sailed to Australia on the SWIFTSHORE (?).  Being of a roving disposition, he then joined the Royal Charter and sailed to Chile and South American ports, returning to Australia to join the GULNARE which was a revenue cutter running between Port Adelaide and Victor Harbor.

WHAT WAS A REVENUE CUTTER?

RS:  It was watching out for smugglers - that sort of thing.

HAD HE WORKED HIS WAY UP THE LADDER, AS IT WERE, AS A SEAMAN?

RS:  I'm not sure - he was a seaman, just what position he held there I'm not certain.  After serving a term on the revenue cutter he left the ship at Victor Harbor and came to Goolwa and settled here, in about l868 I think.

WAS HE MARRIED AT ALL?  HOW OLD WAS HE WHEN HE DID THAT?

RS:  He opened a butchering business in Goolwa in l873 and took over control of the Goolwa Hotel in l877.

HE HAD A VARIED WORKING CAREER, DIDN'T HE?

RS:  Yes, and it was as the genial host of this establishment that he became acquainted with most of the sportsmen of the State. In those days they always found good shooting and fishing in the Lower Murray. He was married in l874 at Goolwa.  He married Sara Peck.  She came with her people, she was born in Adelaide just after they came out from England and they moved to Port Elliot and that was where grandfather met her and they married in Goolwa in l875.  He was Anglican so I suppose they married in the Anglican Church, although I'm not certain of that.

DID HE SELL THE BUTCHER SHOP OR DID HE RUN THEM BOTH?

RS: He sold the butcher shop before he went to the hotel, and later he started a canning and preserving works on the Coorong - for fish and edible birds, Betty's grandfather, Mr. Robert Neighbour went into partnership with him and they canned for meat from these fish and birds.

DO YOU KNOW JUST ABOUT WHERE IN THE COORONG?

RS:  Actually they did that in the brewery building in Richard Street, after the brewery closed down. (Actually the grandfather took over the managership of the brewery too.)  They consigned shipments of ale and other things - although that declined because of railways, and the brewery closed down, and he took over the buildings and opened this cannery.  That was in the l880's.

WERE THEY SUCCESSFUL AT THAT?

RS:  Yes, it turned out to be excellent quality, evidently.   A regular supply of game was not forthcoming and after a time they closed.

BUT THEY COULD HAVE CONTINUED THE FISH COULDN'T THEY?

RS:  Yes

SO WAS HE HAVING A FAMILY BY THIS TIME, WAS HE?

RS:  He had six daughters and three sons.  The three sons enlisted in the war and went overseas during the First World War.

DID THE GIRLS WORK IN THOSE DAYS?

RS: I'm not sure about that but they were married.  Three or four of them moved away after they were married, to different places.

DID THEY LIVE AT THE HOTEL, RICHARD?

RS:  They did for a time. While he was licensee of the hotel, they lived there, and later they lived up near the brewery for a time.

WHAT DID HE DO WHEN HE CLOSED DOWN THE CANNERY?

RS:  He led a number of prospecting parties into the hills, but with not a great deal of success.  When the steamer GOOLWA went ashore at the Murray Mouth, he took the contract to float her and conveyed all the available labour to the Mouth, and succeeded with the venture.  Apart from these enterprises, Mr. Spencer found time to advance anything for the benefit of the town.  For a long time he sat on the Council, both as Councillor and Mayor.  He also took a deep interest in the children, and was one of the supporters of sports, concerts and entertainments.

HE WAS A VERY COMMUNITY MINDED PERSON?

RS:  He was, his talents were also considerably developed in amateur theatricals and in the (garbled....) days of Goolwa such operas as Gilbert and Sullivan's PINAFORE and MIKADO were produced under his direction.

DO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN HELD?  WOULD THE TOWN HALL HAVE BEEN BUILT THEN, DO YOU THINK?

RS: The Town Hall was built in l878, that is, the old Town Hall.

SO IT'S QUITE LIKELY THAT'S WHERE THE PERFORMANCES WERE?

RS:  About the same time he produced these plays - he certainly had plenty of energy.

WHAT DID HE DO AFTER HE LEFT THE CANNERY?

RS:  I'm not sure about that. That was getting on well into the 'eighties.  He died in l929 - he had retired for some years and was 84 when he died.

DID THEY ALWAYS LIVE AT THE BREWERY?

RS:  No - they had a house round towards the river - the Victor Harbor Road comes in, then bends round.  Go straight up - it's a closed road now you can't go up - the corner near the fish shop and the laundry, and then turn left.

YOU MEAN 'LITTLE SCOTLAND' - THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL IT NOW?

RS:  Yes, in there - one of the daughters lived there until she died - her husband was a fisherman and he was drowned at the Murray Mouth - Beau Fletcher.

HOW OLD WAS HE WHEN HE DROWNED?

RS:  I don't know, because I don't actually remember him.  The aunt had two sons and she looked after the sons - the aunt, she had cows.

WHERE DID SHE KEEP THE COWS?

RS:  Over in the paddocks across the other side of the road where she lived - of course it is all built over now - she had paddocks over there.

RICHARD, THAT WAS YOUR GRANDFATHER WHO WAS SUCH A VERSATILE MAN - WHO WAS YOUR FATHER?

RS:  My father was also John James Spencer. He was the eldest son.

DID HE WORK IN GOOLWA AS HE GREW UP?

RS:  He was born and educated in Goolwa and when he was in his late teens he went to Western Australia and worked on the goldmines.  In his 20's he moved to Broken Hill and worked in the mines there.

WHEN WAS HE BORN?

RS:  He was born in l885.  He met a girl there who worked in the hotel, and, after much wooing, he brought her back to Goolwa and married her here.  She came from Currency Creek.  They were married and settled down here, and soon after they settled the war broke out and he enlisted and went overseas.

DID HE GO TO GALLIPOLI?

RS:  No - he was in England and France, and while he was away my eldest sister was born.  He got what they called 'trench feet' from standing long periods in the trenches.  Apart from that he wasn't actually wounded.

WERE HIS FEET PAINFUL?

RS:  Very painful, and he had to spend a while in hospital in England.

THE OTHER TWO BROTHERS LIVED THROUGH THE WAR?

RS:  Yes, they all came back, they brought a German machinegun with them which stood for some years in the rotunda, now it's in the Museum.  I think they brought back a piece each.

WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF MEN JOINED UP FROM GOOLWA THEN?

RS:   There were a number, don't know the number, but there were quite a few joined up.

YES - THEIR NAMES ARE ON THE MEMORIAL DOWN BY THE HERITAGE CLUB

RS:  Yes, there are quite a few names on there.

DID YOUR FATHER EVER TALK ABOUT WHAT GOOLWA LOOKED LIKE WHEN HE WAS A BOY?

RS:  Not really.  I don't know whether it was greatly different from when I was born.

THE PADDLE STEAMER TRADE WOULD HAVE FADED OUT AS HE WAS GROWING UP

RS:  Yes - while the paddle steamers were busy it was quite a busy town then.

WHAT DID YOUR FATHER DO WHEN HE CAME BACK TO GOOLWA TO LIVE?  WHEN HE WAS MARRIED?

RS:  He took up the trade of fishing down round the Murray Mouth and Coorong.  Until they started to build the barrages, so then he went to work on the barrages in the 30's.  He was a nightwatchman, rode his bike to the barrage all hours of the day and night on all different shifts.  Four in the afternoon until midnight, and midnight to eight in the morning, that sort of thing.

RICHARD, WHERE WAS YOUR HOME?

RS:   When I was born we lived over the other side of Goolwa, but when I was four we moved into a cottage down on the corner here, on Richard Street.

IS IT STILL THERE?

RS:  Oh yes it was sold after Mum died - other people have it now.  The paddle steamer industry and the CAPTAIN STURT were moored at the barrage;  they supplied the power for the machines that were used in the building and Dad had to go out on to those during the night to keep the steam up on the boilers.  There were times on very rough, windy nights he had to get down on his hands and knees and crawl along the planks to get to them.

I WONDER HOW ON EARTH HE COULD SEE, PROBABLY CARRIED A LAMP?

RS:  He would have had a torch or a lantern.

GOOD STEADY MONEY DURING THE LATTER END OF THE DEPRESSION?

RS:  Yes

YOU WERE GROWN UP BY....WHICH YEAR WERE YOU BORN?

RS:  I was born in l925.

SO YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN GROWING UP DURING THE DEPRESSION?

RS:  Yes that's right - I was at school most of the time during the Depression.

HOW MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS DID YOU HAVE?

RS:  I had two sisters and one brother.  I'm the only one living now.

DO YOU REMEMBER GOING DOWN TO THE BARRAGES YOURSELF AS A CHILD?

RS:  Oh yes we used to go down there quite often, we used to go swimming down there.  When they dredged out the channel for the piers for the barrage - the mud was put in a heap - like a little island, and it left a fairly deep channel between that and the mainland, and we went down there at times swimming in the channel there. It was quite deep, that's where I learned to swim actually.  I could sort of dog-paddle a bit but one day the aunts got me and tossed me into the river and told me to swim over to the other side (laughing.....)

SO YOUR FATHER DIDN'T GO BACK TO FISHING AFTER....

RS:  No he worked on the barrage until he was of retiring age, that was l950.

THE BARRAGES WERE OPENED IN 1940, SO HE ACTUALLY WORKED ON THEM AFTER THAT?

RS:  Yes he worked on them after that - well there was a lot of maintenance work and his job as Watchman - letting the boats through the lock.  At that time they had big steel girders and you had to wind them over with a windlass.  I tried it myself and it was very heavy work.

HOW DID HIS BACK STAND UP TO THAT?

RS:  He was quite a strong man actually - really quite a powerful man, he wasn't fat or anything.  He was riding the bike back and forth all the time.

CAN YOU REMEMBER THE COTTAGES AND SO ON ALONG BARRAGE ROAD?

RS:  Yes there were timber and iron cottages all along, up against the sandhills, and there were quite a number of families lived along there.  There were also a number along the Beach Road.  On the other side of the Goolwa Beach Road, there were cottages along there too.  There were men working on the barrage.

I WONDER WHY THAT FAR AWAY?

RS:  Oh well, to find room - all along the sandhills that was taken up with

WHAT, ALL ALONG THE SANDHILLS RIGHT ALONG TO THE CORNER?

RS:  Yes, oh well, wherever there was a little bit of a flat part.  There were over 200 men working on the barrages.  Some managed to get homes in the town.

IT MUST HAVE SWELLED THE POPULATION OF THE SCHOOL?

RS:  It did. Up until that time, the stone building there took all the children in four rooms, with different classes, but when the barrage children started to come they had to build an additional room outside, near the main gate.  That's where I was in Grade 6 and 7.

WAS IT A WOOD & IRON BUILDING?

RS:  Yes wood and iron

HOT AS HADES IN SUMMER I SUPPOSE?

RS:  Yes hot in the summer and cold in winter

CAN YOU REMEMBER MUCH ABOUT YOUR SCHOOL YEARS RICHARD?

RS:  Quite a bit.  I went through the school alright and went to High School at Victor Harbor.

DID YOU GO ON A BUS OR ON THE TRAIN?

RS: By bus.  I wasn't able to get my Intermediate Certificate however and I was a bit disgusted about that.  I had to leave before the Intermediate Examination came up.

DID YOU DO THREE YEARS OR TWO YEARS:

RS:  I only did one year.  What they called First Year and the Second Year was Intermediate and about half way through the year the Post Office was calling for what they called in those days Telegraph Messenger.  I wasn't keen about Post Office actually but my parents were keen for me to sit for it - they were holding an examination.  There were about ten lads from High School sat for it, at Victor Harbor and to my amazement I topped it and went to work at the Post Office at Victor.  I would have been about fourteen.

YOU WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE STAYED ON AT SCHOOL?

RS:  Yes I would have liked to get my Intermediate Certificate.  I was rather set back a bit in later years because I didn't have the piece of paper - but that's how it worked out.

SO YOU DELIVERED TELEGRAMS AROUND VICTOR HARBOR DID YOU?

RS:  Delivered telegrams for a time until the first year anyway, before I went on to Postman.  There were two Telegraph Messengers.  I remember an elderly lady, who had quite a big home, who lived, very old home, that was situated some distance off the main road. There was a big iron gate and a track that led into the house, and she received telegrams off and on, but the two of us took it in turns because we didn't want to go in there.  We had to keep a big heavy stick hidden in the bushes outside the gate because when we got through the gate there would be dogs - she must have had about twenty dogs and they ran wild.  There was quite a growth of trees and the dogs ran more or less wild, and as soon as we got through the gate they would come and snap at our heels, and we had to have this stick to use until we got up to the house.  That was at Victor Harbor.

HOW DID YOU USED TO GET ACROSS?  DID YOU GO ON THE TRAIN?  WAS THERE A MORNING TRAIN?

RS:  Yes there were regular trains running then - and I also had a pushbike - at times I used to ride home from Victor for weekend.

SO YOU LIVED AT VICTOR?

RS:  I boarded in Victor at a guest-home and rode the bike home at the weekend.

AND HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU JOINED UP?

RS:  18.  I was working on the barrage at that time.

YOU'D GIVEN THE POST OFFICE UP?

RS:  Yes after a couple of years - the war was on, had started then.  I came home and started working on the barrage, I was working on the barrage when I turned 17.  (tape ceased)

TAPE 1 - SIDE B

WHEN YOU WERE 17 YOU SAID YOU APPLIED TO JOIN THE NAVY?

RS:  When I turned 17 but the eyesight stopped me from getting into the Navy so when I turned 18 I received word to apply to join up in the Army.  That was in a Call Up at 18 in l943.

WHAT SORT OF WORK DID YOU DO ON THE BARRAGE?

RS:  Maintenance work.

WHO WAS IN CHARGE THEN?

RS:  It was Mr. Parker Limb for the Lockmaster and Mr. Geddes was the foreman.  We had what we call the 'logs' - wooden things that go down between the piers to hold the water back, and they had to be lifted by crane every so often and run into a big shed to have all the bolts taken out of them, and releaded and the rust cleaned off;  and all the steel bearers above the logs underneath the lock itself had to be.....had to get down on planks just above the water and using a hammer take all the rust off the side of the bearers and relead them.

FAIRLY DANGEROUS WORK?

RS:  It was fairly dirty work and the rust particularly on a warm sunny day, the powdered rust on the face and the sun on top of it.

DID YOU WEAR SAFETY GLASSES?

RS:  We wore goggles.

CAN YOU REMEMBER ANY STORMS THAT MADE IT MORE DANGEROUS WORKING DOWN THERE, RICHARD?

RS:  It did get pretty windy at times, but I don't know that there were any particular storms while I was on that work.

WHAT ABOUT A HIGH RIVER WHEN THE GATES HAD TO BE OPENED?

RS:  Yes high river could affect it - there weren't any to that extent that affected us to any degree.

DID YOU USED TO GO ONTO THE OTHER BARRAGES TOO, TAUWITCHERE AND NEW ISLAND?

RS:  I didn't- Dad used to go off and on to the other barrages.

YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE TOGETHER?

RS: Yes we were.

WERE YOU CALLED UP INTO THE ARMY?

RS:  I was called up.

WHERE DID YOU DO YOUR BASIC TRAINING?

RS:  They had a number of different tests to see what branch of the service you went into, whether it was armoured, infantry, water transport or whatever and they sent me into the mechanised cavalry - a training establishment at Puckapunyal.  I spent some time there training for the - actually we were being trained to go to the Middle East, but by the time we got through that course they were bringing the divisions back to go to the Islands to fight, so we had to turn round and go into a tank training regiment.  We then went to the jungle training school at Canungra in Queensland and then we were embarked for overseas from Brisbane.

DID YOU USED TO GET HOME ON LEAVE AT ALL, RICHARD?

RS:  I had one little lot of leave at about the end of l943 I think.  Just a bit after that we went to Queensland.

WHICH ISLANDS WERE YOU POSTED TO?

RS:  We went to Morotai and Borneo, actually we were put into different units after our training.  The unit I went into was a specialised squadron - our tanks were specially fitted out with flame-throwers and bulldozers and bridge layers.  When we were on Morotai half of our squadron was split up attached to the Ninth Division that went to land in the north of Borneo and the other half went to the landing at Balikpapan further down the coast - they were attached to the Seventh Division.

YOU SAW ACTION, ACTUAL FIGHTING?

RS:  Yes, we were in the actual landing.

I GUESS IT'S A TIME OF YOUR LIFE YOU'D RATHER FORGET RICHARD?

RS:  Yes, we weren't sorry to come out of it.

I'M SURE YOU FORMED THE FRIENDSHIPS/MATESHIP THAT AUSTRALIA IS FAMOUS FOR?

RS:  I had a lot of friends.  Yes, there was one particular cobber that I had throughout the training days at Puckapunyal we were split up later - he went into the Seventh Division (Armoured) and I went into the Second First Armoured Reconnaissance Squadron it was called, and after I came out at Balikpapan into a camp there, I met this cobber - he was right next door - it was really quite a surprise.

WERE THERE QUITE A LOT OF BOYS JOIN UP FROM GOOLWA - SOME OF YOUR SCHOOL FRIENDS, I SUPPOSE?

RS:  Yes, there were a number went away from Goolwa and several didn't come back.  My brother was in the 27^th Battalion, he went through the Middle East and then came back and was sent to New Guinea.  He was wounded on the Kokoda Trail and it was really through those wounds that he died in the finish, a few years after the war.

HAD HE MARRIED BEFORE THE WAR?

RS:  He was - no he was married when he first came back from the war.  They had one daughter.  He lived quite a fair life for quite a few years after he came back.  It was shrapnel, they took some out in the field hospital, but they didn't quite get it all; there were one or two pieces they missed, and it was that that actually killed him.

I GUESS THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO A LOT OF OUR SOLDIERS?  SO YOU SURVIVED THE WAR AND CAME BACK TO GOOLWA, DID YOU?

RS:  There again, actually when I was in Borneo, when the war was finished, I had my name down on the list to go to Japan with the Occupation Force, but the word came through one day from the EW &S Department - because when I was on the barrage I worked for that Department, and they put in a claim for me on what they called 'occupational grounds', and I thought – “I'll probably go back on the barrage again, that'll be alright.”  But when I came home and reported to them, they sent me up the Riverland on pick and shovel work on a Seepage Scheme, to my great disgust!

YOU DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE REHAB SCHEMES IN THOSE DAYS DID YOU, IT WAS ONLY THE LUCKY ONES THAT GOT HELP THEN?

RS:  It was work but after a year or so I injured my arm and had it in plaster for some time so I came home.  That was about l947 and I was unemployed for a little while.

DID THEY LOOK AFTER YOU WITH WORKERS' COMPENSATION?

RS:  Yes.  One day the postmaster came round and said that they were starting a letter round, letter delivery in Goolwa.  It had been contract before and he wanted me to put in a tender for it.  That was accepted and I had to go round the town, lots more than it is now, to map out a route in order to deliver.

SO YOU WERE THE TOWN'S FIRST POSTMAN?

RS:  Yes.  I rode a bike.  I had to meet the trains each day and collect the mail and sort it and deliver it.  The train from Adelaide came in about 12 o'clock about midday and there was another one at night.  There was mail on both trains.  The mail of a night-time was left in the Railway Station office overnight and I had to pick that up in the morning.

SO YOU WERE A CONTRACTOR, NOT AN ACTUAL PMG EMPLOYEE?

RS:  Yes, I did it on contract for three years, on a tender, and then they decided to put the Post Office up a grade, and they wanted a Postal Officer, actually to do the delivery and do the rest of the day in the Post Office, so I was put on permanent.  I did night telephone duty on the switchboard, week about, for twenty-two years until it went to automatic.

DID YOU GET PAID EXTRA FOR DOING THAT SHIFT?

RS:  We had to work all though the day, too.

WAS IT PART OF THE DUTIES THAT WAS EXPECTED OF YOU?

RS:  It was expected.

AND WAS IT INCORPORATED INTO YOUR PAY - DID YOU GET MORE PAY FOR DOING THAT?

RS:  We did get a small amount for doing it, not much.

DID THEY HAVE SLEEPING ACCOMMODATION THERE?

RS:  We had a bed there we put down and we slept when we could when there were no calls.  It varied a lot, some nights we would sleep through and other nights you'd get hardly any sleep and so forth.

AND EXPECTED TO TURN UP FOR WORK NEXT DAY TOO?

RS:  Yes.  The morning telephonist came on at 7 o'clock and I'd go on to sort up the mail for the morning train - do up the mail, take it to the station, pick up the mail that was there and then come home to breakfast.

AND BE BACK AT WORK BY WHEN, 9 O'CLOCK?

RS:  Yes we'd start sorting up the mail ready for delivery again.

YOU WORKED HARD, RICHARD?

RS:  Yes well, I don't know, long hours perhaps.

AND I SUPPOSE YOU GOT TO KNOW GOOLWA, ALTHOUGH YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT PRETTY WELL, ANYWAY?

RS:  Well I knew most of it, but it’s amazing - I didn't know the names of any of the streets.  I don't know anybody living in Goolwa that knew the names of their streets.  That's Armfields' street and that's somebody else's street.  I didn't know this was Richards Street, and I lived in it!

DID YOU GET THE PLAN FROM THE COUNCIL, DID YOU?

RS:  Yes - we had to get all the names of the streets from the Council, and there were a couple of other departments.

DID THE PEOPLE HAVE LETTER-BOXES OUT THE FRONT, OR DID YOU KNOCK ON THE DOOR WITH THEM?

RS:  There were one or two well-made ones and there were shoe boxes and jam tins and such like

DID YOU USED TO BLOW A WHISTLE?

RS:  Yes you used to blow a whistle whenever we got into the street, but it caused a lot of problems with dogs, when dogs heard that whistle they'd gallop straight at you.

DID YOU EVER GET BITTEN?

RS:  Actually I was bitten twice and had to have injections for them.

HOW BIG WAS GOOLWA THEN, WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE?

RS:  There were only a few stone homes, mostly stone, scattered.  One here and one there - in this block there were four houses.  Those two stone houses down on the corner there, that's all there was up to the railway line, very scattered.

WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE POPULATION OF GOOLWA THEN?

RS:  Including Hindmarsh Island, about 750 and now its about 5000 to 6000.  In less than fifty years.

HOW LONG WERE YOU THE POSTMAN?

RS:  I was the Postal Officer for about ten years, I think, then went to Postal Assistant, and later to Postal Clerk.

I WAS SPEAKING TO SOMEONE THE OTHER DAY THAT KNEW YOU, MRS. KIT SMITH, AND SHE KNEW YOU AT THE COUNTER AT THE POST OFFICE.

RS:  Yes I remember her, is her husband still alive?

NO, HE'S DEAD NOW - SHE IS ABOUT 85.  LET ME GO BACK TO THE WAR, YOU WERE TELLING ME A STORY ABOUT COMING HOME, ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO GOT TO PORT ADELAIDE, A SOLDIER.

RS:  Oh yes that was Alf Tuckwell.  He fell down into the hold of the ship, I think the ship was docked and he was killed.  He'd been right through the war in the Middle East.

WERE YOU HOME BY THEN?

RS:  No, that was before I came home.  It was when the Divisions were being brought back.

I UNDERSTAND THERE WERE MARSHY AREAS AROUND GOOLWA WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP?

RS: There were several. One in particular was almost opposite our home. With winter rains, this became a lagoon, perhaps 150 yards long, and 100 yards wide. You can imagine the pleasure we kids had in, on, and around it.

NOTE:  The tape at this point becomes erratic and appears to speed up.  It is impossible to re-programme it to continue and has been abandoned.

TAPE B  -  SIDE A         Friday 4^th February 2000

IT WAS AFTER THE WAR, RICHARD, WERE YOU A POSTAL ASSISTANT FIRST OR WERE YOU THE POSTMAN?

RS:  I was the original Postman for Goolwa actually, I started the delivery off. 

WAS THAT YOUR FIRST JOB AFTER THE WAR?

RS:  No, I worked up in the Riverland for a time at the Waterworks, on a Seepage Project, for a couple of years, and then, owing to injuries to my arm, I gave the job up, up there.  That's on the other tape isn't it?

YES IT IS.  SO YOU HAD A BIKE.  HOW BIG WAS THE AREA THEN?

RS:  I had my own bike at first.  I was on contract delivery for three years and I had my own bike then, but after that, when I was put on full-time, I had a departmental bike to ride around on.

THEY USED TO HAVE WIRE BASKETS IN THE FRONT, DIDN'T THEY?

RS:  No - the first ones just had an ordinary carrier on the front, and we slid the bag on that and strapped it to the handlebars.

DID THEY GET HEAVY SOMETIMES?

RS:  They did get pretty heavy, yes.

DID YOU SORT THE MAIL YOURSELF FIRST?

RS:  I had to collect the bags of mail from the train from Adelaide.  The train came in at mid-day or around about that, and I would go down and collect the bags from there and sort them up.  Sort out the delivery and so forth.

AND HOW BIG WAS YOUR AREA - DID IT GO TO BEACH ROAD?

RS:  For a start it was down to Gundagai Street and Oliver Street and up as far as Washington Street - that was about the limit at that time.

HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO DO THAT?

RS:  I used to - about two hours I think at that time.  Two to three hours.

SO IT WAS AN AFTERNOON DELIVERY BY THE TIME YOU SORTED THE MAIL?

RS:  Yes, they gradually increased the size of the delivery round as more people came and settled here.

RICHARD, WHAT SORT OF LETTER BOXES DID PEOPLE HAVE?

RS:  At the very beginning they grabbed whatever they could find for a start.  Some had shoeboxes, those big jam tins, the seven pound jam tins, anything they could do up and put out until they could get a better box.

DID YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCES WITH DOGS AND SO ON?

RS:  Altogether I was actually bitten twice with dogs and had to have an injection but apart from that I had a number of goes in with dogs. We had to blow a whistle in those days.  You'd blow the whistle at one end of the street and all the dogs at the other end would be waiting for you.

DID YOU PICK UP LETTERS FOR PEOPLE AS WELL?

RS:  On occasions I did.  I didn't make a point of it but I did do that on occasions.  There was nothing said against it.

RICHARD, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE POSTAGE WAS WHEN YOU BEGAN?

RS:  Postage then was about threepence.  It's hard to remember for sure.

HOW LONG WERE YOU THE POSTMAN?

RS:  For about ten years altogether, and then I went up a grade to Postal Assistant and put my time in, in the office, then.

WHEN YOU HAD A CONTRACT AS POSTMAN, WAS THAT SUFFICIENT FOR YOU TO LIVE ON, OR DID YOU HAVE TO DO OTHER WORK AS WELL?  THE TRAIN DIDN'T COME IN UNTIL 12 O'CLOCK - WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE MORNING?

RS:    The mail came in at 12 o'clock, and there was another mail down on the evening train about 8 o'clock.  That was held at the station overnight, and I had to pick that up next morning.

SO THAT FILLED YOUR MORNING TO DO THAT?  WERE THERE MAILBAGS FROM VICTOR HARBOR FOR GOOLWA TOO?

RS:    We sent a letter mail on the road bus to Adelaide, and all parcel and paper mail went on to the morning train.

WERE YOU INVOLVED WITH THAT, TOO?

RS:   Yes, I had to go to work first thing in the morning.  The bus used to leave about 7:30 and I used to go in about 6:30 to do up the mail for that, and take the parcel mail down to the station for the morning train.

THERE WAS PLENTY TO DO THEN?

RS:  I found enough.

IN THE MEANTIME YOU MARRIED BETTY, DID YOU?  WHEN DID YOU MARRY BETTY?

RS:         1954.  I had known her all my life.

WHAT CAN YOU REMEMBER ABOUT AFTER THE WAR, WITH PEOPLE COMING BACK TO GET JOBS AND SO ON?  WAS IT DIFFICULT?

RS:  Jobs were difficult to get and they took what they could get actually.  There was no dole paid out in those days.

AND THE SERVICES PEOPLE DIDN'T HELP YOU GET JOBS, I SUPPOSE?

RS:  Only those that could claim war injuries.  They had to have very specific proof of it to be able to get a pension of any kind, then it was only a small pension - unless they got a TPI, then they were alright.

WHAT WAS LIFE LIKE IN THE POST OFFICE AFTER YOU GAVE UP THE ROUND?  STILL BUSY?

RS:  Busy enough although it wasn't as busy then as it was when South Lakes became - South Lakes was built up about l972/3.  I was Acting Postmaster in l975 and I started the delivery in South Lakes at that time.

WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF PERMANENT HOMES IN THERE, OR WEEKEND PEOPLE?

RS:  Well there were a lot of weekenders but there were some permanents too.

SOMEBODY WAS TELLING ME THE OTHER DAY, WHO HAD GROWN UP HERE, THAT THEY COULD NEVER BELIEVE THAT THE SOUTH LAKES DEVELOPMENT WOULD EVER SUCCEED, AND LOOK AT IT NOW.  THERE'S NOT TOO MANY SPARE BLOCKS OVER THERE NOW?

RS:  That was all farmland there before.  It's amazing how quickly it built up.

RICHARD, WHAT SORT OF JOBS, OR HOW DID THE TOWN DEVELOP IN THE 50'S AND 60'S TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO HAVE JOBS HERE WHEN THE TOWN WAS GROWING? DO YOU REMEMBER THE DEVELOPMENT OF INDUSTRIES IN THE TOWN, BECAUSE IT HAS GROWN PROGRESSIVELY SINCE THE WAR, HASN'T IT?

RS:  It was mainly builders and that type of thing that provided employment.

WHAT ABOUT BOAT BUILDING?  YOU'VE SEEN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INDUSTRIAL AREA UP ALONG THE PORT ELLIOT ROAD?

RS:  That didn't come about until later years.  I forget exactly when it started, it was only in the last ten years or fifteen.

IT'S QUITE A GROWING AREA UP THERE NOW.  WERE YOU EVER INVOLVED WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT OR WATCHED THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEVELOP?

RS:  No

BECAUSE IT WAS A DISTRICT COUNCIL THEN, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A MAYOR, WE HAD A CHAIRMAN.

RS:  The grandfather was a Councillor for some years, and Mayor, but I never took it up - I wasn't interested.

WERE YOU INVOLVED WITH THE SCHOOL WHEN THE CHILDREN WENT TO SCHOOL?

RS:  Yes.  I was Secretary for some time, of the school Committee, that was the only actual involvement.

WHAT SORT OF ACTIVITIES WAS THE COMMITTEE RESPONSIBLE FOR?

RS:  I was Secretary of the RSL for a year or two and a foundation member of the South Coast Lions Club and the SES and I was on the Town Hall Committee for ten or eleven years.

YOU'VE BEEN A GOOD COMMUNITY CITIZEN THEN?  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

RS:  Given a little bit, and I've been doing a lot of other things - just doing one there now.

RICHARD, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE CFS AND THE SES AND ITS DEVELOPMENT - CAN YOU TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THAT AND HOW IT CAME ABOUT?  WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THERE WAS A BUSHFIRE, BEFORE IT WAS ON A FORMAL BASIS?  HOW WOULD THE WORD COME THROUGH?

RS:  The SES would be called out to take part in it.

CAN YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS ESTABLISHED?  WAS THERE A FIRE STATION HERE WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP?

RS:  The SES only started in about l972, I think.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN THERE HAD BEEN A FIRE BEFORE THAT?

RS:  They had a voluntary fire committee in the town and they'd be all called out.

OH YES - IT WAS IN THE MAIN STREET.  THEY HAD A BIG SHED BY THE FISH SHOP, WHERE THE MEDICAL CENTRE IS.

RS:  It was there for a time and it shifted round where it is now.

HOW WOULD THEY GATHER PEOPLE UP?  WAS THERE A SIREN THAT RANG?

RS:  Ring them up, and blow the siren, and any within cooee that heard it would report in.  It was voluntary.

IT STILL IS.

RS:  Well it is, actually, but more organised than it was then.  On the telephone switchboard, there was one number there that was connected to the siren and anybody that reported a fire could ring the telephonist and she would ring the siren from there.

CAN YOU REMEMBER ANY BAD FIRES DURING THE EARLY DAYS?

RS:  We never had any grass fires when people had cows, because they used to keep all the grass down. 

There wasn't anything serious at all in those days that I can remember.

SOMEONE WAS TELLING ME THERE USED TO BE A BRUSH FENCE AROUND WHERE THE PARK IS, THERE NEAR THE BANDSTAND, AND THE COWS EVEN WANDERED AROUND THAT AND ATE THE HEDGE - KEPT IT CLIPPED.  IS THAT RIGHT?

RS:  Yes, there was a brush fence around it for some time, for years.

I SUPPOSE YOU CAN REMEMBER THAT BEING ESTABLISHED CAN YOU?  THAT LITTLE ROTUNDA?

RS:  No, not really.

IT’S ALWAYS BEEN THERE IN YOUR MEMORY?

RS:  There was a man lived over opposite there, Mr. Osborne, he was a gardener and looked after the gardens there for a good many years.

ITS STILL CALLED MEMORIAL PARK ISN'T IT?

RS:    Yes, we had some nice shows there.

WERE THERE HOUSES IN THE MAIN STREET DOWN THERE AT THAT STAGE, WHERE THE SALVATION ARMY IS NOW ?  WERE  THERE HOUSES THERE?

RS:    There was nothing much there when we were going to school, that was all open land there.

HOW DID THAT PALM TREE, THAT TALL PALM TREE COME TO BE PLANTED?  AT THE BACK THERE, THAT YOU CAN SEE FOR MILES?  BEHIND CADELL STREET THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHOSE SHOP IT IS BEHIND?

RS: There was nothing there then at that time in those days actually.

IT'S PROBABLY ON A HERITAGE REGISTER NOW OR SOMETHING. 

(There is then a sort discussion with a third person which is inaudible)

THEY ARE QUITE UNIQUE TO BE GROWING IN GOOLWA - VERY TALL.  RICHARD, WE WERE TALKING BEFORE ABOUT THE STATE CHILDREN THAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT FROM DORA TUCKWELL.  WHAT'S YOUR MEMORY OF THEM, DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL WITH ANY OF THESE CHILDREN?

RS:   Oh there were several in the class that I was in at school in the l930's during the Depression.  I started school in l930/31.

SO IT’S LIKELY THEY WERE THERE BEFORE THEN?  CAN YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU  CAME TO KNOW THEM.  WERE THEY JUST PART OF THE COMMUNITY, THESE CHILDREN WHO WERE WARDS OF THE STATE?

RS:    We got on pretty well with them.

BUT YOU JUST ACCEPTED THEM, THAT THEY WERE PART OF THE COMMUNITY?

RS:  Oh yes at the school they were accepted as part of the community.

AND YOU THINK MOST OF THEM WERE ORPHANS DID YOU?

RS:  Possibly their parents could not afford to keep them at that time. They lived with different families, different couples in town.

THERE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A LOT OF THEM OUT IN NORTH GOOLWA THERE?

RS:  They were situated in different parts of the town actually.  There were two girls in the house just back behind us there and up near where Dora is in Sumner Street they settled up there and there were some on the other side of town, with families over there.

YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER THEY TOOK A LONG TIME TO SETTLE DOWN OR HAD ANY DIFFICULTIES BEING UPROOTED FROM THEIR FAMILIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

RS:  Not really

YOU PROBABLY WEREN'T AWARE OF THOSE SORT OF THINGS IF YOU WERE ONLY JUST PLAYING WITH THEM.  THAT TELEPHONE SERVICE YOU TOLD ME, I THINK THAT IT WAS PART OF YOUR DUTIES TO MAN THE PHONE AT NIGHT?  DID IT CLOSE DOWN, OR WAS IT ON EMERGENCY, OR WAS IT KEPT OPEN?  DID IT CLOSE AT 10 O'CLOCK OR WAS THAT WHEN YOU CAME ON?  AND THE OTHER ASSISTANTS?

RS:  It went on to automatic in l971, before that it was all manual.

THOSE CORDS AND THINGS - IT WAS QUITE AN ART TO DO THAT.  SO IT WAS PART OF A POSTAL ASSISTANT'S JOB TO MAN THE TELEPHONE SYSTEM AT NIGHT?

RS:  They considered it so, but for some time when I was doing it, there was a lad in the town without work, and we managed to get him to take it over every other week.  I'd do it one week and he'd do the next week.

WHY WASN'T THERE ENOUGH POSTAL ASSISTANTS?  WERE YOU THE ONLY ONE BESIDES THE POSTMASTER?

RS:         The other one refused to do it, managed to get away with it.

IT GAVE SOMEBODY ELSE A JOB, I SUPPOSE.  RICHARD, WHAT SPECIAL EVENTS, WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP AND LATER, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT WERE HELD IN GOOLWA?

RS:  Each November, Guy Fawkes Night was a great event. Our family always prepared quite a big bonfire with the extras.

        The Goolwa Regatta was held on Boxing Day every year and many people who had left the town, moved away over the years, came back for the day.

WHO TOOK THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ORGANISING IT?

RS:  They had a Goolwa Regatta Committee.  My grandfather was on it and my father was on it and several others in the town were on the committee and they did all the organising.

I SUPPOSE MANY OF THEM SPENT CHRISTMAS DAY NOT ENJOYING IT GETTING READY FOR THE REGATTA. WHAT FORM DID IT TAKE?

RS:  They had races, motor-boat races, sailing races, rowing races, swimming races and the greasy pole.  A pole was well greased and hung from a crane over the water down at the wharf and it would have a feather sticking in the end of it. The contestants had to slide down the pole and get the feather out before they went into the water.  It was about six feet over the water I suppose, six or eight feet.

DID THEY HAVE TO CLIMB UP ON THE CRANE TO GET THERE?

RS:  Yes.  One or two went feet first and then tried to grab the feather as they went but those going head first, if they could hang onto the pole long enough, could pull the feather out.  It was put in fairly tight into the pole.  There were occasions when they got it out, one or two of them were able to get it almost every time.

I SUPPOSE IT WAS THE YOUNG BLADES THAT WERE INTO THAT?

RS:  After a couple of years practice one or two of them got quite good at it.

SO IT WAS A REAL PICNIC DAY FOR EVERYBODY?

RS:  It was, actually

DID PEOPLE TAKE THEIR OWN LUNCH, OR DID THEY BUY IT DOWN THERE?

RS:  Some of the shops, fruiterers and delis, had a stall down on the wharf and people could buy ice-creams, anything they wanted.  It was a really good day.

DID GOOLWA EVER HAVE A SHOW?

RS:  No.  Port Elliot was the nearest.

WHAT ABOUT A FOOTY OVAL.  DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT MIGHT HAVE COME INTO BEING?

RS:  That land was owned by some people at Hindmarsh Valley for some yeaRS.

WHERE THE OVAL IS NOW?

RS:  Yes, and then they leased it to the Football Club and when they finished the Football Club bought the land or the Council bought it.

HOW FAR BACK CAN YOU REMEMBER A FOOTBALL TEAM?   (End of tape)

TAPE  2  -  SIDE B

RS:  As far as I can remember my father played football just after the First War.  They played where the football oval is now, not certain on that, it was a bit of a paddock.  It had been used for keeping cows on.

YOU SAID SOME PEOPLE FROM HINDMARSH VALLEY OWNED IT?

RS:  Yes, at that time, and then later they leased it for a time, and finally they sold it to the sports clubs.

AND THEY PLAYED CRICKET THERE TOO?

RS:  They played Milang, Milang came here to play, and Pt. Elliot, and I think Strathalbyn in the early years, and later on they played Victor Harbor and out around there and Yankalilla.

YOU DIDN'T PLAY FOOTBALL, DID YOU PLAY CRICKET?

RS: No.  We did a lot of swimming, actually, out from the wharf.  There were a couple of walkways with ladies’ and mens’ bathing sheds situated out along this walkway, and we used to swim there.     In the early days, before the barrage was built, it was all clear salt water and it was beautiful swimming.

WAS IT DEEP?

RS:  It was quite deep.

QUITE DANGEROUS, WOULDN'T IT BE?

RS:  No, not really.  Inside the bathing houses they had piles along there that sheltered a part at the end of the wharf, and there was quite a good little swimming pool - little children could go in there swimming quite easily.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED IN GOOLWA, A SAFE PLACE FOR CHILDREN TO SWIM APART FROM THE BEACH ISN'T IT?

RS:  Yes.  Not very good water for swimming in the river these days, I don't think.  It was really good in those days.  A lot of us used to swim outside the piles. I remember when the paddle-steamers used to come down and tie up at the wharf, us kids used to go across the paddle-steamer and dive in from there and when there were no boats there, they had two cranes on the wharf, and we used to swing one around and catch on to the trailing chain to swing us out.

NOBODY STOPPED YOU?  WAS THERE ANYBODY TO STOP YOU DOING THAT?

RS:  Nobody did stop us, we did manage to get away with it.

DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU LEARNT TO SWIM?

RS:  I used to do a bit of dog-paddling for a start.  One day at the barrage, when they were building the barrage and dredging all the mud out for the piles and putting them in a big heap like an island, it was a little way off the main land and my aunts, two anyway, were down there with us and they grabbed me, it was fairly deep channel and they grabbed me and slung me in and said – “Swim over to that island”.

HOW OLD WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN?

RS:  It would have been about forty or fifty feet, near-abouts.  I was about eight, seven or eight and I made it and made it back again.  From that time I started swimming.

RICHARD, WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO FOR ENTERTAINMENT AS YOU GREW UP, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT PICTURES?

RS:  We had the pictures and then an occasional concert but apart from that we just played.  Children from different families would get together and play around on the common, down the end of the street where they have the place dug out for the water drain.  That was all one big paddock then and we used to play out on there a lot.

TELL ME ABOUT THE PICTURES.  YOU WOULD REMEMBER THE SILENT PICTURES I SUPPOSE?

RS:  Only just.  At that time they were showing them in the Town Hall before the Centenary Hall was built, and I just saw the last of the silent films that were shown here.  One was a Western, Tom Mix, and the other one was a jungle film.  I think they were on Saturday nights, some families used to go, but my parents weren't interested in it.

BUT YOU WERE ALLOWED TO GO?

RS:  Actually I was allowed to go to those two.

DID SOMEONE PLAY THE PIANO WHILE ALL THE ACTION WAS GOING ON?

RS:  Yes a woman played the piano, I can't remember her name now, Betty might know.  (Betty, Richard's wife, who is in the room, is asked, but can't remember who played the piano).

I THINK DORA TUCKWELL REMEMBERS WHO IT WAS

RS:  Yes she would remember, she is a few years older.

AND THEN THE PICTURES, AS WE USED TO CALL THEM, TRANSFERRED TO THE CENTENARY HALL, DID THEY?

RS:  Mm… that was after the Centenary Hall was built.

ABOUT 1930.  A LOT OF US HAVE MADE THE MISTAKE THAT IT IS ABOUT THE  CENTENARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA IN 1936, BUT IT IS THE CENTENARY OF STURT'S JOURNEY DOWN THE MURRAY THAT THE HALL COMMEMORATES, IN 1830.  THAT WOULD BE RIGHT, WOULDN'T IT?  AND YOU BECAME THE PROJECTIONIST THERE, DID YOU?

RS:  No.  One of Dora's brothers was showing them for some time. He was working for the manager of it.

RICHARD - CAN YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST VEHICLES.  THE FIRST MOTOR CARS THAT CAME TO GOOLWA?

RS:  Yes.  Well I suppose two of the first was a Mr. Bedford (Harold's father) had a square top and Percy Wells himself, he had a square top.  Can't remember just what model it was now, what make it was..

I'M SURE PEOPLE JUST STOOD AND STARED AT THEM?

RS:  Yes

DID THEY MAKE A LOT OF NOISE?

RS:  They weren't that bad but Mr. Wells, I've seen him down the street, I think he must have kept his foot on the clutch and revved it up.

HE WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN HOW TO DRIVE I SUPPOSE - LEARNT THE HARD WAY.  MR. WELLS WAS THE CHEMIST?

RS:  Well, yes, they did some chemistry.  He was the only local chemist.

IF YOU NEEDED THE DOCTOR, DID THEY COME FROM VICTOR HARBOR, OR WAS THERE ONE HERE?

RS:  The doctor came up from Victor Harbor.  The first two doctors we had were Dr. Shipway and Dr. Douglas from Victor Harbor.

MAY DOUGLAS' FATHER?

RS:  Yes, and they came up and took turn, about one day a week for an hour or two, one day a week.

CAN YOU REMEMBER WHERE THEY CONSULTED, WHERE WERE THEIR ROOMS?

RS:  They started off where the Mini-Mart is, a part of the Jolly building.  There is a stairway went up to a room up above and they held their clinic up in there.

IF MEDICINE OR TABLETS WERE NEEDED, DID MR. WELLS MAKE IT UP, WHAT HAPPENED?

RS:  Some would get medicine from Wells and some from Victor Harbor.

YOU'D CONSULT THE DOCTOR HERE AND THEN HAVE TO GO TO VICTOR HARBOR TO GET THE…

RS:  You could see the doctor here but you'd have to send to Victor Harbor for the medicine.

DID THE DOCTOR TAKE IT WITH HIM AND IT GOT SENT BACK, OR WHAT.  IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

RS:  I'm not too sure about that.

DID GOOLWA EVERY HAVE A PERMANENT DOCTOR AS YOU GREW UP?

RS:  No.

CAN YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST ONE?

RS:  There was a matron.  Nurse Jamieson, she had a sort of private hospital.  There was where I was born and Betty was born at home

THAT WAS THE LOVELY RESTORED PLACE OPPOSITE THE BOWLING GREEN?

RS:  No, that was another one again.  This was over on the tennis court on Liverpool Road.  The courts are along the house.  Nurse Jamieson had that and another woman had a private hospital over by the bowling green.

AND DID THEY DISPENSE EMERGENCY TREATMENT AS WELL IF IT WAS NEEDED?

RS:  They would, everybody went to them.  Nurse Jamieson, anyway - she would give emergency treatment.

I'VE HEARD HER NAME QUITE FREQUENTLY.  DO YOU REMEMBER NURSE JAMIESON?

RS:  I remember her, yes, quite well.

AND WAS IT JUST A MATERNITY HOSPITAL, OR DID SHE HAVE OTHER PATIENTS THERE AS WELL?

RS:  No I think it was only maternity as far as I know.  That was before the Victor Harbor hospital was built, that was the only place around.

THERE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN THE NEED FOR THAT SORT OF SERVICE?

RS:  Coming up with fish, loads of fish, from the Mouth and Coorong and everybody in the town must have, I don't know whether they could smell them or what, but they would be at the wharf when the boats came in bringing in the fish.  They used to bring them up by the tons in those days, Mulloway.

WAS THAT BEFORE THE BARRAGES WERE BUILT?

RS:  Yes. The biggest catch I remember was ten ton.  There were about three or four fishermen involved.

WHO WERE THEY?

RS:  I can't remember their names now.

WOULD MR. WOODROW BE ONE OF THEM?

RS: Mr. Woodrow might have been in on that one, and Mr.Treleaven. I can't remember for sure just who they were.  They had fish lined up from one end of the wharf to the other.

WHAT DID THEY PUT THEM IN AND WHAT DID THEY DO WITH THEM?

RS:  Well under the big shed there at the wharf, they had a nice sort of a big cupboard there, like an ice chest, and they kept ice there, and a lot of fish-boxes, and the fishermen would pack the fish into these boxes with ice mixed in around them.

WHERE DID THE ICE COME FROM?  WAS THERE AN ICEWORKS HERE?

RS:  No I'm not sure where they got the ice from now.

SOMEBODY, I THINK IT WAS BETTY KEMP, TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY USED TO TAKE SOME FISH ON THE BACK OF AN OLD UTE TO TOWN AND BRING BACK ICE.  CAN YOU REMEMBER THAT?

RS:  Perhaps Jock Saubier.

DID THEY SHIP THEM AWAY ON THE TRAIN?

RS:  They would send them - it depended how long it was before the next train because there was only a freight train running once a day, and if they had long to wait there would be someone with a truck to run them in to market in the city. A big lot like that ten ton, well they had to have several trucks.

SO THAT WAS IN THE 30'S BEFORE THE BARRAGES WERE BUILT?

RS:  Yes in the 30's.  If the fish hadn't been able to get through the barrages I don't know what happened to the old spawning grounds.  They used to spawn in Currency Creek and the Finniss River, and since they haven't been able to come up to spawn, they would have to have gone out to sea and found another place to spawn in.  I don't know where they went to, actually.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A FISH TRAP ALONGSIDE THE BARRAGE, SO THEY CAN GET THROUGH.

RS:  I know they were at one time, but are they still talking about it are they?  Well, usually these things go on for a number of years, talking about it.

RICHARD - WOULD THE FISHERMEN SELL YOU MULLOWAY OFF THE BOAT?

RS:  They would if anybody wanted them

I SUPPOSE THE TOWNSPEOPLE SHARED IN THE GREAT CATCH TOO.  I BET IT WAS CHEAP FISH.

RS:  Yes, well of course the father was fishing at that time, too, because we just about grew up on fish.

DID HE HAVE A MOTOR BOAT?

RS:  Yes.

DID YOU USED TO GO OUT WITH HIM?

RS:  No, well I was a bit young.  Only a couple of times I went with him. He had a hut down at the Mouth.  There were a number of fishermen had them and I had been down with him down there overnight.

DID THEY GO OUT INTO THE OCEAN OR JUST FISH AROUND THE MOUTH?

RS:  No, they just fished inside the Mouth, and further on down the Coorong - even up here too - the fish used to come up to spawn in these creeks, and Dad and a brother were fishing together, and they used to set nets a little way off the mouth of these creeks, and catch them as they were coming back out again.

THEY DIDN'T CATCH THEM AS THEY WERE GOING IN, THEY LET THEM SPAWN?

RS:  No, no they waited until they spawned.

DID YOUR FATHER HAVE TO HAVE A LICENCE TO BE A FISHERMAN? 

RS:  I don't know if they had licences or not in those days, I don't think they did, I think it was only later that they brought licences in.

I JUST WONDERED IF IT WAS OPEN SLATHER FOR ANYONE WHO WANTED TO CATCH FISH?

RS:  Well anybody could come, even from Victor Harbor, when they heard that the fishing was good here, they'd come up here.

RICHARD, DO YOU REMEMBER ANYBODY GETTING DROWNED OVER THE YEARS. WAS IT FISHERMEN OR CHILDREN?

RS:  I had an uncle who was drowned, out fishing, and there were two or three drownings.

WHAT WITH A BOAT UPSET OR WHAT?

RS:  I don't know if anybody really knows what happened, whether they capsized or….it got away from them, or they got caught up in a net, or whatever.

IT'S ONLY A COUPLE OF YEARS SINCE SOMEONE WAS DROWNED DOWN THERE IN THE MULLOWAY SEASON.  THEY GET BOGGED DOWN WITH THOSE LONG BOOT THINGS THEY WEAR THESE DAYS.

RS:  Yes there were two brothers with those rubber knee-boots, thigh boots I think.

WHEN THE TIDE'S BEEN RUNNING OUT - I'VE SEEN IT AND HAVE BEEN AMAZED AT THE SPEED IT RUSHES OUT, AND IF YOU'D FALLEN IN - AND THIS WAS WHEN THE MOUTH WAS VERY NARROW - YOU'D NEVER , YOU'D FINISH UP AT ANTARCTICA OR SOMEWHERE, IT'S TREACHEROUS, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

RS:  It must have gone down to a very deep spot somewhere.

DO YOU REMEMBER ANY CHILDREN BEING DROWNED IN THE RIVER AT ALL?

RS:  Not while I was young, I don't remember any.

WHAT DID PEOPLE DO IF THERE WAS A BAD ACCIDENT ANYWHERE? WOULD THE DOCTOR COME FROM VICTOR HARBOR?

RS:  Yes they would come up yes, anything in an emergency.

IT JUST SHOWS YOU HOW VALUABLE THE PHONE SYSTEM WAS.  SO THE AMBULANCE SERVICE HAS ONLY BEEN ESTABLISHED IN RELATIVELY RECENT YEARS?

RS:  Only twenty, twenty-five years.

AND IT IS STILL VOLUNTEER RUN WHICH IS GOOD, ISN'T IT?

RS:  Yes, still volunteer.

RICHARD, HOW LONG DID YOU WORK FOR THE POST OFFICE ALTOGETHER AFTER THE WAR?

RS:  November l947 to May l984.

SO YOU'VE BEEN RETIRED SIXTEEN YEARS?

RS:  Yes

AND HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE AT THE POST OFFICE WHEN YOU LEFT?

HAD IT GROWN, HAD IT?  HOW MANY ASSISTANTS DID YOU HAVE?

RS:  There was only three of us at the Post Office.  Postmaster, Postal Clerk and Postal Officer.

AND SO THERE WAS JUST ONE DELIVERY PERSON?

RS:  Yes

EVEN WHEN YOU RETIRED?

RS:  They had two postmen then, the same as they have now.

I THINK THEY CONTRACT A LOT OUT THESE DAYS DON'T THEY?

RS:  Well they could do, too.

PARTICULARLY AT CHRISTMAS TIME.  AND HAVE YOU FOUND PLENTY TO DO  SINCE YOU RETIRED?

RS:  Too much.

YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST HAVEN'T YOU?

RS:  Yes

WERE YOUR FOREBEARS?  YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER INVOLVED WITH THE CHURCH OF CHRIST?

RS:  My mother was, my father was actually Anglican but my mother was a foundation member of the church here.

IS THERE ANY REASON WHY THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IS VERY STRONG HERE AND AT MILANG AND IN THIS SORT OF AREA?  IS THERE ANY SPECIFIC REASON?

RS:  I don't know really - whether there's more friendliness there. They have that Friendship going now on a Tuesday and that's brought a lot of people in, 80 attending there often on Tuesdays.

NO I  HAVEN'T, BECAUSE I'VE GOT TOO MUCH TO DO, BUT I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DO GO TO THEIR ACTIVITES, AND SO ON.

RS:   I attended there for some years, and that perhaps would help to bring people there too.

HAVE THEY ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO HAVE A PERMANENT MINISTER?

RS:  Not always.  There have only been a couple of occasions when we have had to do without one for a year or a couple of years.

WAS THAT BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T GET ANYONE TO COME OR FINANCES?

RS:  Yes, at that particular time.  There was one minister left very suddenly and we didn't have time to sort of arrange another permanent.

WERE YOU INVOLVED WITH THE ADDITIONS TO THE CHURCH OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS?

RS:  We helped out.

BECAUSE IT’S IN THE HERITAGE AREA, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD TO TAKE ADVICE FROM THE HERITAGE PEOPLE, WOULDN'T YOU?

RS:  Yes

AND DID THE NEW BUILDINGS HAVE TO BE IN KEEPING WITH THE OLD.  THEY WOULDN'T LET YOU BUILD JUST WHAT YOU WANTED TO, WOULD THEY?

RS:  You could build on to it but it had to be built in a certain way.  (End of tape).

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